Grails + OSGi

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Grails + OSGi

Sergei Rahouski

Hi,

 

I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!

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Re: Grails + OSGi

burtbeckwith
You know that http://jira.grails.org/browse/GRAILS-2221 was closed 2 days ago, you commented on it a 25 minutes ago. Why ask a question that implies you have no knowledge of the ongoing discussions on this topic?

Burt

Sergei Rahouski wrote
Hi,

I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
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Re: Grails + OSGi

Daniel Woods
In reply to this post by Sergei Rahouski
If this is a joke: "Lol."

If this is not a joke: "OSGi is the antithesis of convention-over-configuration, and does not fit well in our ecosystem."

On Friday, March 14, 2014, Sergei Rahouski <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

 

I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!

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Re: Grails + OSGi

Jonathan Stott-5
In reply to this post by Sergei Rahouski
I struggle to conceive of the idea of OSGi as being "exciting", but notwithstanding that, we have implemented dynamically reloadable modules in one of our Grails apps using OSGi without too much hassle. Replacing Grails plugins with OSGi bundles is clearly a non-starter, but if you want to modularise your apps [dynamically, at runtime] then it's not too much difficulty to design a way to let OSGi provide this.

Jonathan


On 14 March 2014 15:04, Sergei Rahouski <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

 

I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!




--
Dr Jonathan Stott
Development Team Leader

Axon Limited
"Connecting Healthcare"
2 Venture Road
University of Southampton Science Park
Southampton SO16 7NP


Tel: +44 (0)2380 11 11 99

www.axonuk.com

This message and the information contained therein is intended only for the use of the person(s) to whom it is addressed.  It may contain information that is confidential or privileged within the meaning of applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible and delete this message from your system; please also note that any use or disclosure of the information contained in this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  This correspondence may include examples or terms based upon current assumptions with any costs shown excluding VAT and cannot be considered as a quotation, offer or commitment in any way.  Whilst reasonable precaution has been taken to minimise the risk, the contents or an attachment to this e-mail may have become corrupted during transmission or contain viruses, we cannot accept liability in this regard, and you should carry out your own virus checks.

Axon Limited is a Company registered in England and Wales number 5728502. Registered Office:
C/o Berry Smith LLP, Haywood House, Dumfries Place, Cardiff, Wales, CF10 3GA.
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Re: Grails + OSGi

Daniel Woods
I suspect we were being trolled. Burt's comment certainly indicates that... :-/

On Friday, March 14, 2014, Jonathan Stott <[hidden email]> wrote:
I struggle to conceive of the idea of OSGi as being "exciting", but notwithstanding that, we have implemented dynamically reloadable modules in one of our Grails apps using OSGi without too much hassle. Replacing Grails plugins with OSGi bundles is clearly a non-starter, but if you want to modularise your apps [dynamically, at runtime] then it's not too much difficulty to design a way to let OSGi provide this.

Jonathan


On 14 March 2014 15:04, Sergei Rahouski <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;srahouski@idsgrp.com&#39;);" target="_blank">srahouski@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!




--
Dr Jonathan Stott
Development Team Leader

Axon Limited
"Connecting Healthcare"
2 Venture Road
University of Southampton Science Park
Southampton SO16 7NP


Tel: +44 (0)2380 11 11 99

www.axonuk.com

This message and the information contained therein is intended only for the use of the person(s) to whom it is addressed.  It may contain information that is confidential or privileged within the meaning of applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible and delete this message from your system; please also note that any use or disclosure of the information contained in this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  This correspondence may include examples or terms based upon current assumptions with any costs shown excluding VAT and cannot be considered as a quotation, offer or commitment in any way.  Whilst reasonable precaution has been taken to minimise the risk, the contents or an attachment to this e-mail may have become corrupted during transmission or contain viruses, we cannot accept liability in this regard, and you should carry out your own virus checks.

Axon Limited is a Company registered in England and Wales number 5728502. Registered Office:
C/o Berry Smith LLP, Haywood House, Dumfries Place, Cardiff, Wales, CF10 3GA.
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Re: Grails + OSGi

Sergei Rahouski
In reply to this post by burtbeckwith
I found the jira after I posted if that matters.

-----Original Message-----
From: burtbeckwith [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 10:47 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [grails-user] Re: Grails + OSGi

You know that http://jira.grails.org/browse/GRAILS-2221 was closed 2 days ago, you commented on it a 25 minutes ago. Why ask a question that implies you have no knowledge of the ongoing discussions on this topic?

Burt


Sergei Rahouski wrote
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked
> Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!





--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Grails-OSGi-tp4655107p4655110.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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RE: Grails + OSGi

Sergei Rahouski
In reply to this post by Daniel Woods

Wow. I didn’t expect so many emotions about the subject. As I mentioned in the jira which to clarify I found after I posted to this group.

 

There are particular architectural problems OSGi could help overcoming. I mentioned them in the jira as a comment:

 

http://jira.grails.org/browse/GRAILS-2221

 

You can embed OSGi container inside Grails however that environment is entirely alien to the rest of the application, Grails part of it anyways.

 

Unfortunately it is pretty hard to load and particularly unload services, controllers and views at runtime. So adding such features within my application would be hard / impossible. Lots of Grails APIs don’t while providing ‘add’ method don’t have ‘remove’ method.

 

I suppose what I am missing is how Grails plugin architecture is better than OSGi. They seem to serve the same purpose except the plugin system is less standard and flexible. Reinventing a bicycle IMO..

 

From: Daniel Woods [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 11:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [grails-user] Grails + OSGi

 

I suspect we were being trolled. Burt's comment certainly indicates that... :-/

On Friday, March 14, 2014, Jonathan Stott <[hidden email]> wrote:

I struggle to conceive of the idea of OSGi as being "exciting", but notwithstanding that, we have implemented dynamically reloadable modules in one of our Grails apps using OSGi without too much hassle. Replacing Grails plugins with OSGi bundles is clearly a non-starter, but if you want to modularise your apps [dynamically, at runtime] then it's not too much difficulty to design a way to let OSGi provide this.

Jonathan

 

On 14 March 2014 15:04, Sergei Rahouski <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','srahouski@idsgrp.com');" target="_blank">srahouski@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!




--

Dr Jonathan Stott
Development Team Leader

Axon Limited
"Connecting Healthcare"
2 Venture Road
University of Southampton Science Park
Southampton SO16 7NP


Tel: +44 (0)2380 11 11 99

www.axonuk.com

This message and the information contained therein is intended only for the use of the person(s) to whom it is addressed.  It may contain information that is confidential or privileged within the meaning of applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible and delete this message from your system; please also note that any use or disclosure of the information contained in this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  This correspondence may include examples or terms based upon current assumptions with any costs shown excluding VAT and cannot be considered as a quotation, offer or commitment in any way.  Whilst reasonable precaution has been taken to minimise the risk, the contents or an attachment to this e-mail may have become corrupted during transmission or contain viruses, we cannot accept liability in this regard, and you should carry out your own virus checks.

Axon Limited is a Company registered in England and Wales number 5728502. Registered Office: C/o Berry Smith LLP, Haywood House, Dumfries Place, Cardiff, Wales, CF10 3GA.

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Re: Grails + OSGi

Owen Rubel
In reply to this post by Sergei Rahouski
The one you posted on 25 minutes earlier? One would hope so.

Owen Rubel
415-971-0976
[hidden email]


On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Sergei Rahouski <[hidden email]> wrote:
I found the jira after I posted if that matters.

-----Original Message-----
From: burtbeckwith [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 10:47 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [grails-user] Re: Grails + OSGi

You know that http://jira.grails.org/browse/GRAILS-2221 was closed 2 days ago, you commented on it a 25 minutes ago. Why ask a question that implies you have no knowledge of the ongoing discussions on this topic?

Burt


Sergei Rahouski wrote
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked
> Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!





--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Grails-OSGi-tp4655107p4655110.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Grails + OSGi

Sergei Rahouski

Owen, I don’t know why this matters so much in what sequence I’ve made my posts.

 

To clarify, I DID post to the thread and went looking for jira. The reason you are seeing difference in timestamps is because apparently Jira server and e-mail server identified my timezone differently.

 

Let’s close OSGi topic because of this.

 

From: Owen Rubel [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 12:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Grails + OSGi

 

The one you posted on 25 minutes earlier? One would hope so.


Owen Rubel
415-971-0976
[hidden email]

 

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Sergei Rahouski <[hidden email]> wrote:

I found the jira after I posted if that matters.

-----Original Message-----
From: burtbeckwith [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 10:47 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [grails-user] Re: Grails + OSGi

You know that http://jira.grails.org/browse/GRAILS-2221 was closed 2 days ago, you commented on it a 25 minutes ago. Why ask a question that implies you have no knowledge of the ongoing discussions on this topic?

Burt


Sergei Rahouski wrote
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked
> Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!





--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Grails-OSGi-tp4655107p4655110.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:

    http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email



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Re: Grails + OSGi

Owen Rubel
What Jira put in as timestamp is dateCreated and not your timestamp based on your timezone. But this should be dropped at this point regardless.

Owen Rubel
415-971-0976
[hidden email]


On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Sergei Rahouski <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen, I don’t know why this matters so much in what sequence I’ve made my posts.

 

To clarify, I DID post to the thread and went looking for jira. The reason you are seeing difference in timestamps is because apparently Jira server and e-mail server identified my timezone differently.

 

Let’s close OSGi topic because of this.

 

From: Owen Rubel [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 12:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [grails-user] Re: Grails + OSGi

 

The one you posted on 25 minutes earlier? One would hope so.


Owen Rubel
<a href="tel:415-971-0976" value="+14159710976" target="_blank">415-971-0976
[hidden email]

 

On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Sergei Rahouski <[hidden email]> wrote:

I found the jira after I posted if that matters.

-----Original Message-----
From: burtbeckwith [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 10:47 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [grails-user] Re: Grails + OSGi

You know that http://jira.grails.org/browse/GRAILS-2221 was closed 2 days ago, you commented on it a 25 minutes ago. Why ask a question that implies you have no knowledge of the ongoing discussions on this topic?

Burt


Sergei Rahouski wrote
> Hi,
>
> I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked
> Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!





--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Grails-OSGi-tp4655107p4655110.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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    http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email



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Re: Grails + OSGi

Owen Rubel
In reply to this post by Sergei Rahouski
Sergei,

No one has a personal problem with you, it's just that you are disrespecting Burt, and the Grails maintainers decision in the regard and bringing your issues to the mailing list. 

We all disagree at times. Ask a question, voice an opinion but most importantly... move on. If you don't like the answer, build a plugin. Plugins are there to provide options for the community and you seem to want to provide that option. Here's a great opportunity for you.

Owen Rubel
415-971-0976
[hidden email]


On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Sergei Rahouski <[hidden email]> wrote:

Wow. I didn’t expect so many emotions about the subject. As I mentioned in the jira which to clarify I found after I posted to this group.

 

There are particular architectural problems OSGi could help overcoming. I mentioned them in the jira as a comment:

 

http://jira.grails.org/browse/GRAILS-2221

 

You can embed OSGi container inside Grails however that environment is entirely alien to the rest of the application, Grails part of it anyways.

 

Unfortunately it is pretty hard to load and particularly unload services, controllers and views at runtime. So adding such features within my application would be hard / impossible. Lots of Grails APIs don’t while providing ‘add’ method don’t have ‘remove’ method.

 

I suppose what I am missing is how Grails plugin architecture is better than OSGi. They seem to serve the same purpose except the plugin system is less standard and flexible. Reinventing a bicycle IMO..

 

From: Daniel Woods [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 11:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [grails-user] Grails + OSGi

 

I suspect we were being trolled. Burt's comment certainly indicates that... :-/

On Friday, March 14, 2014, Jonathan Stott <[hidden email]> wrote:

I struggle to conceive of the idea of OSGi as being "exciting", but notwithstanding that, we have implemented dynamically reloadable modules in one of our Grails apps using OSGi without too much hassle. Replacing Grails plugins with OSGi bundles is clearly a non-starter, but if you want to modularise your apps [dynamically, at runtime] then it's not too much difficulty to design a way to let OSGi provide this.

Jonathan

 

On 14 March 2014 15:04, Sergei Rahouski <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

 

I am thinking it would be really cool to replace statically linked Grails plugin system with something more exciting like OSGi.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!




--

Dr Jonathan Stott
Development Team Leader

Axon Limited
"Connecting Healthcare"
2 Venture Road
University of Southampton Science Park
Southampton SO16 7NP


Tel: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%292380%2011%2011%2099" value="+442380111199" target="_blank">+44 (0)2380 11 11 99

www.axonuk.com

This message and the information contained therein is intended only for the use of the person(s) to whom it is addressed.  It may contain information that is confidential or privileged within the meaning of applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible and delete this message from your system; please also note that any use or disclosure of the information contained in this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  This correspondence may include examples or terms based upon current assumptions with any costs shown excluding VAT and cannot be considered as a quotation, offer or commitment in any way.  Whilst reasonable precaution has been taken to minimise the risk, the contents or an attachment to this e-mail may have become corrupted during transmission or contain viruses, we cannot accept liability in this regard, and you should carry out your own virus checks.

Axon Limited is a Company registered in England and Wales number 5728502. Registered Office: C/o Berry Smith LLP, Haywood House, Dumfries Place, Cardiff, Wales, CF10 3GA.