Rails - Slingshot

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Rails - Slingshot

Babelex
Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot

Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
it's Java Runtime..
Thoughts?

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Marc Palmer Local

On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:

> Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
> http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
>
> Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
> it's Java Runtime..
> Thoughts?

Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.

You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it will  
be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same codebase as  
the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have to  
find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure it  
won't be that easy.

Marc


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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Babelex
I don't think it's creating a new GUI, rather using the existing GUI
(browser based). What it adds is offlining and some native platform
features like drag and drop.

On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:
>
> > Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
> > http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
> >
> > Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
> > it's Java Runtime..
> > Thoughts?
>
> Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.
>
> You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it will
> be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same codebase as
> the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have to
> find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure it
> won't be that easy.
>
> Marc
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>


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Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Marc Palmer Local

On 23 Mar 2007, at 13:24, Babelex wrote:

> I don't think it's creating a new GUI, rather using the existing GUI
> (browser based). What it adds is offlining and some native platform
> features like drag and drop.

Should be just as doable then, and it is nothing to do with Grails/
Rails. Their code, if it uses a browser, should work identically with  
Grails if you can change the way it starts/stops apps to use Grails.

Marc


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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Babelex
I think some of the cleverness is that you can run the converted rails
app, and disconect the internet and it keeps running, then re
connecting the internet again it sync/catches up. I think that is one
of the things they are doing, which obvious;ly involves some
activerecord magic. Grails would need some GORM/Store magic.

On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 23 Mar 2007, at 13:24, Babelex wrote:
>
> > I don't think it's creating a new GUI, rather using the existing GUI
> > (browser based). What it adds is offlining and some native platform
> > features like drag and drop.
>
> Should be just as doable then, and it is nothing to do with Grails/
> Rails. Their code, if it uses a browser, should work identically with
> Grails if you can change the way it starts/stops apps to use Grails.
>
> Marc
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>     http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>


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Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

JamesPage
In reply to this post by Marc Palmer Local
Firefox 3 will be supporting offline apps. So how needed is something like slingshot?

See: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php

And especially comment #10 from Robert O'Callahan of Mozilla.

Is this the end of the desktop Operating System in the computer?




On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:

> Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
> http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
>
> Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
> it's Java Runtime..
> Thoughts?

Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.

You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it will
be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same codebase as
the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have to
find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure it
won't be that easy.

Marc


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Re: Rails - Slingshot

JamesPage
Further googling brought up this page

http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html

Which goes into detail into how to enable resources for offline use in firefox3.

James

On 3/26/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:
Firefox 3 will be supporting offline apps. So how needed is something like slingshot?

See: <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php

And especially comment #10 from Robert O'Callahan of Mozilla.

Is this the end of the desktop Operating System in the computer?




On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:

> Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
> <a href="http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
>
> Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
> it's Java Runtime..
> Thoughts?

Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.

You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it will
be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same codebase as
the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have to
find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure it
won't be that easy.

Marc


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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Babelex
Indeed, but the world isn't firfox based, there are still an awful lot
of IE users along with some Safari/webkit and Opera users. It will
take time but I would expect all browsers to support offlining in some
way, God knows how many different ways however!!

On 3/26/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Further googling brought up this page
>
> http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html
>
> Which goes into detail into how to enable resources for offline use in
> firefox3.
>
> James
>
>
> On 3/26/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Firefox 3 will be supporting offline apps. So how needed is something like
> slingshot?
> >
> > See:
> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php
> >
> > And especially comment #10 from Robert O'Callahan of Mozilla.
> >
> > Is this the end of the desktop Operating System in the computer?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
> > > > http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
> > > >
> > > > Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
> > > > it's Java Runtime..
> > > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.
> > >
> > > You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it will
> > > be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same codebase as
> > > the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have to
> > > find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure it
> > > won't be that easy.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> > >
> > >      http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


--
regards
Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Siegfried Puchbauer
With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded database (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the connection is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.

brgds, sigi

On 3/27/07, Babelex <[hidden email]> wrote:
Indeed, but the world isn't firfox based, there are still an awful lot
of IE users along with some Safari/webkit and Opera users. It will
take time but I would expect all browsers to support offlining in some
way, God knows how many different ways however!!

On 3/26/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Further googling brought up this page
>
> http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html
>
> Which goes into detail into how to enable resources for offline use in
> firefox3.
>
> James
>
>
> On 3/26/07, James Page < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > Firefox 3 will be supporting offline apps. So how needed is something like
> slingshot?
> >
> > See:
> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php
> >
> > And especially comment #10 from Robert O'Callahan of Mozilla.
> >
> > Is this the end of the desktop Operating System in the computer?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
> > > > http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
> > > >
> > > > Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
> > > > it's Java Runtime..
> > > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.
> > >
> > > You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it will
> > > be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same codebase as
> > > the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have to
> > > find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure it
> > > won't be that easy.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> > >
> > >       http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


--
regards
Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

JamesPage
The problem with all these applications is that the client has to download an app. How big would java + grails + derby + lucene be?

Firefox off line capacity is interesting as client has to just install firefox. Not all the world may have firefox, but what whould you prefer as System Admin. Install java + grails + derby + lucene, or install Firefox?

James

On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer <[hidden email]> wrote:
With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded database (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the connection is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.

brgds, sigi


On 3/27/07, Babelex <[hidden email]> wrote:
Indeed, but the world isn't firfox based, there are still an awful lot
of IE users along with some Safari/webkit and Opera users. It will
take time but I would expect all browsers to support offlining in some
way, God knows how many different ways however!!

On 3/26/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Further googling brought up this page
>
> <a href="http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html
>
> Which goes into detail into how to enable resources for offline use in
> firefox3.
>
> James
>
>
> On 3/26/07, James Page < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > Firefox 3 will be supporting offline apps. So how needed is something like
> slingshot?
> >
> > See:
> <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php
> >
> > And especially comment #10 from Robert O'Callahan of Mozilla.
> >
> > Is this the end of the desktop Operating System in the computer?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
> > > > <a href="http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
> > > >
> > > > Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
> > > > it's Java Runtime..
> > > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.
> > >
> > > You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it will
> > > be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same codebase as
> > > the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have to
> > > find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure it
> > > won't be that easy.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> > >
> > >      <a href="http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


--
regards
Al
<a href="http://www.folknology.com/index.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Siegfried Puchbauer
IMO the offline solution with firefox is much more tricky than a solution using a local mini web server when developing a data centric application. The firefox solution is javascript based and providing a full working application in offline mode with access to all the data can be hard work. When using the local installation, you can reuse your java/groovy/gsp/etc. code.

On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:
The problem with all these applications is that the client has to download an app. How big would java + grails + derby + lucene be?

Firefox off line capacity is interesting as client has to just install firefox. Not all the world may have firefox, but what whould you prefer as System Admin. Install java + grails + derby + lucene, or install Firefox?

James


On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer <[hidden email]> wrote:
With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded database (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the connection is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.

brgds, sigi


On 3/27/07, Babelex <[hidden email]> wrote:
Indeed, but the world isn't firfox based, there are still an awful lot
of IE users along with some Safari/webkit and Opera users. It will
take time but I would expect all browsers to support offlining in some
way, God knows how many different ways however!!

On 3/26/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Further googling brought up this page
>
> <a href="http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html
>
> Which goes into detail into how to enable resources for offline use in
> firefox3.
>
> James
>
>
> On 3/26/07, James Page < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > Firefox 3 will be supporting offline apps. So how needed is something like
> slingshot?
> >
> > See:
> <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php
> >
> > And especially comment #10 from Robert O'Callahan of Mozilla.
> >
> > Is this the end of the desktop Operating System in the computer?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
> > > > <a href="http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
> > > >
> > > > Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
> > > > it's Java Runtime..
> > > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.
> > >
> > > You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it will
> > > be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same codebase as
> > > the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have to
> > > find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure it
> > > won't be that easy.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> > >
> > >      <a href="http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


--
regards
Al
<a href="http://www.folknology.com/index.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Babelex
I would be interested to see how yoiu would use the Firefox solution
with a Grails Apps James, have you any ideas on how this could be
accomplished? Obviously it would save downloading in some cases.

On 3/29/07, Siegfried Puchbauer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> IMO the offline solution with firefox is much more tricky than a solution
> using a local mini web server when developing a data centric application.
> The firefox solution is javascript based and providing a full working
> application in offline mode with access to all the data can be hard work.
> When using the local installation, you can reuse your java/groovy/gsp/etc.
> code.
>
>
> On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The problem with all these applications is that the client has to download
> an app. How big would java + grails + derby + lucene be?
> >
> > Firefox off line capacity is interesting as client has to just install
> firefox. Not all the world may have firefox, but what whould you prefer as
> System Admin. Install java + grails + derby + lucene, or install Firefox?
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their
> offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded database
> (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the connection
> is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.
> > >
> > > brgds, sigi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/27/07, Babelex < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Indeed, but the world isn't firfox based, there are still an awful lot
> > > > of IE users along with some Safari/webkit and Opera users. It will
> > > > take time but I would expect all browsers to support offlining in some
> > > > way, God knows how many different ways however!!
> > > >
> > > > On 3/26/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > Further googling brought up this page
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Which goes into detail into how to enable resources for offline use
> in
> > > > > firefox3.
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/26/07, James Page < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > Firefox 3 will be supporting offline apps. So how needed is
> something like
> > > > > slingshot?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See:
> > > > >
> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And especially comment #10 from Robert O'Callahan of Mozilla.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is this the end of the desktop Operating System in the computer?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about
> it :
> > > > > > > > http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage
> given
> > > > > > > > it's Java Runtime..
> > > > > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it
> will
> > > > > > > be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same
> codebase as
> > > > > > > the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have
> to
> > > > > > > find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure
> it
> > > > > > > won't be that easy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Marc
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >       http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > regards
> > > > Al
> > > > http://www.folknology.com/index.html
> > > > #OpenSource means free to innovate#
> > > >
> > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> > > >
> > > >      http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


--
regards
Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

JamesPage
For the user using firefox's local storage would be easy. They point the browser at a web page. The webpage would synchronize the data, and then when they where offline they would still have access to the data. Simple.....

As Siegfried pointed out it could be hard work for the programmer. It depends on how fast the different JavaScript frameworks are in encapsulating Firefox's local storage. Dojo currently has an API called dojo.storage , which uses flash to store local data.

For details see
http://codinginparadise.org/weblog/2006/04/now-in-browser-near-you-offline-access.html

With firefox local storage javascript frameworks do not need use hacks like using flash, or cookies, etc....

It really depends on what the application is meant to do, but data synchronization can be hard work  because of conflicts, and that has nothing to do with if one uses a Javascript storage solution or local web server.



On 3/29/07, Babelex <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be interested to see how yoiu would use the Firefox solution
with a Grails Apps James, have you any ideas on how this could be
accomplished? Obviously it would save downloading in some cases.

On 3/29/07, Siegfried Puchbauer < [hidden email]> wrote:

> IMO the offline solution with firefox is much more tricky than a solution
> using a local mini web server when developing a data centric application.
> The firefox solution is javascript based and providing a full working
> application in offline mode with access to all the data can be hard work.
> When using the local installation, you can reuse your java/groovy/gsp/etc.
> code.
>
>
> On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The problem with all these applications is that the client has to download
> an app. How big would java + grails + derby + lucene be?
> >
> > Firefox off line capacity is interesting as client has to just install
> firefox. Not all the world may have firefox, but what whould you prefer as
> System Admin. Install java + grails + derby + lucene, or install Firefox?
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their
> offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded database
> (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the connection
> is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.
> > >
> > > brgds, sigi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/27/07, Babelex < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Indeed, but the world isn't firfox based, there are still an awful lot
> > > > of IE users along with some Safari/webkit and Opera users. It will
> > > > take time but I would expect all browsers to support offlining in some
> > > > way, God knows how many different ways however!!
> > > >
> > > > On 3/26/07, James Page < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > Further googling brought up this page
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Which goes into detail into how to enable resources for offline use
> in
> > > > > firefox3.
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/26/07, James Page < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > Firefox 3 will be supporting offline apps. So how needed is
> something like
> > > > > slingshot?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See:
> > > > >
> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And especially comment #10 from Robert O'Callahan of Mozilla.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is this the end of the desktop Operating System in the computer?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about
> it :
> > > > > > > > http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage
> given
> > > > > > > > it's Java Runtime..
> > > > > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it
> will
> > > > > > > be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same
> codebase as
> > > > > > > the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have
> to
> > > > > > > find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure
> it
> > > > > > > won't be that easy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Marc
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >       http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > regards
> > > > Al
> > > > http://www.folknology.com/index.html
> > > > #OpenSource means free to innovate#
> > > >
> > > >

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> > > >
> > > >       http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


--
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Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

JamesPage
In reply to this post by Siegfried Puchbauer
If you are interested in a jetty/derby solution I built an application in 2002 that used Jabber to synchronize different databases. Jabber will store and forward without any work from the programmer.  Messages pile up until the other node logs in. And Groovey has an API for jabber. The solution I built used a Object Database so I don't know if it worth updating it for a SQL type database, and I would have to get the clients permision to open source it (which may be posiable).. Is there any intrest. The synchronization part only took a day or two using jabber, so it may be better starting from scratch.

Jabber was used, as it is easier to set up in multiple clusters of nodes than JMS.

j



On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer <[hidden email]> wrote:
With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded database (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the connection is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.

brgds, sigi


On 3/27/07, Babelex <[hidden email]> wrote:
Indeed, but the world isn't firfox based, there are still an awful lot
of IE users along with some Safari/webkit and Opera users. It will
take time but I would expect all browsers to support offlining in some
way, God knows how many different ways however!!

On 3/26/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Further googling brought up this page
>
> <a href="http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.campd.org/stuff/Offline%20Cache.html
>
> Which goes into detail into how to enable resources for offline use in
> firefox3.
>
> James
>
>
> On 3/26/07, James Page < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > Firefox 3 will be supporting offline apps. So how needed is something like
> slingshot?
> >
> > See:
> <a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/firefox_3_offline_apps.php
> >
> > And especially comment #10 from Robert O'Callahan of Mozilla.
> >
> > Is this the end of the desktop Operating System in the computer?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/23/07, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 23 Mar 2007, at 12:43, Babelex wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Guys check this out, the rails community is buzzing about it :
> > > > <a href="http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://joyeur.com/2007/03/22/joyent-slingshot
> > > >
> > > > Surely this is an area where Grails should have an advantage given
> > > > it's Java Runtime..
> > > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Java UIs suck on every platform, sadly.
> > >
> > > You might be able to get something going with Swing/SWT but it will
> > > be painful I think, and if you still want to use the same codebase as
> > > the web (not clear to me if Slingshot does this) then you'd have to
> > > find a way to map UI interaction to AJAX requests etc. I'm sure it
> > > won't be that easy.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> > >
> > >      <a href="http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


--
regards
Al
<a href="http://www.folknology.com/index.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Babelex
On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:
>For the user using firefox's local storage would be easy. They point
the >browser at a web page. The webpage would synchronize the data,
and >then when they where offline they would still have access to the
data. >Simple....

>
> On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their
> offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded database
> (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the connection
> is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.
> >

I could envisage how the zinbra/jetty/derby/gorm would work as the
models at both ends are similar, what I have trouble imagining however
is how one can acheive synchronisation between something based on Gorm
objects and a remote cache using the Firefox offline solution, I just
wouldn't know where to begin, thats really why I am asking?

Does it mean for a 'Simple data solution' we have to throw away the
Gorm based model in Grails and use some other way of modelling that we
can more easily combine with the Firefox offline model?


--
regards
Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

JamesPage

This is all very hypothetical without having an application in mind. If you where developing an application to hold peoples travel itinerary, then you would would use a snapshot approach and javascript solution is better. The user would just have to install Firefox, and not a massive download of Java + jetty + etc.....

If on the other hand you where developing a system to record the flora of the jungle, and user had to input allot of data then having a full blown web server on client is a better solution.

With the javascript model you would still use grails to render the xml to your client. You would then use one of the javascript frameworks to handel the data on the client end.

The complex bit is handling conflicts between different sets of data.

On 3/29/07, Babelex <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:
>For the user using firefox's local storage would be easy. They point
the >browser at a web page. The webpage would synchronize the data,
and >then when they where offline they would still have access to the
data. >Simple....

>
> On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their
> offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded database
> (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the connection
> is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.
> >

I could envisage how the zinbra/jetty/derby/gorm would work as the
models at both ends are similar, what I have trouble imagining however
is how one can acheive synchronisation between something based on Gorm
objects and a remote cache using the Firefox offline solution, I just
wouldn't know where to begin, thats really why I am asking?

Does it mean for a 'Simple data solution' we have to throw away the
Gorm based model in Grails and use some other way of modelling that we
can more easily combine with the Firefox offline model?


--
regards
Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Babelex
Ok say for example we were using something simple like an address book
webapp , with a couple of domain objects like contact, company and
maybe a small picture of each person. But I would like my customers to
use this address book offline also. So of course I wouldn't expect
them to have things like prescence and chat wwhen offline but one
would for example expect to be able to search the addrees book for a
contact, see the contact pic and retreive say the telephone number.

Could I use the Firefox offline model to acheive this relatively
simple app? and how do I code the contact search, and picture indexing
etc.. . Also how do I tell Firefox how to store or cache the domain
objects?



On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> This is all very hypothetical without having an application in mind. If you
> where developing an application to hold peoples travel itinerary, then you
> would would use a snapshot approach and javascript solution is better. The
> user would just have to install Firefox, and not a massive download of Java
> + jetty + etc.....
>
> If on the other hand you where developing a system to record the flora of
> the jungle, and user had to input allot of data then having a full blown web
> server on client is a better solution.
>
> With the javascript model you would still use grails to render the xml to
> your client. You would then use one of the javascript frameworks to handel
> the data on the client end.
>
> The complex bit is handling conflicts between different sets of data.
>
>
> On 3/29/07, Babelex <[hidden email] > wrote:
> >
> > On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > >For the user using firefox's local storage would be easy. They point
> > the >browser at a web page. The webpage would synchronize the data,
> > and >then when they where offline they would still have access to the
> > data. >Simple....
> >
> > >
> > > On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their
> > > offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded
> database
> > > (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the
> connection
> > > is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.
> > > >
> >
> > I could envisage how the zinbra/jetty/derby/gorm would work as the
> > models at both ends are similar, what I have trouble imagining however
> > is how one can acheive synchronisation between something based on Gorm
> > objects and a remote cache using the Firefox offline solution, I just
> > wouldn't know where to begin, thats really why I am asking?
> >
> > Does it mean for a 'Simple data solution' we have to throw away the
> > Gorm based model in Grails and use some other way of modelling that we
> > can more easily combine with the Firefox offline model?
> >
> >
> > --
> > regards
> > Al
> > http://www.folknology.com/index.html
> > #OpenSource means free to innovate#
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> >
> >      http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >
> >
>
>


--
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Al
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#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

JamesPage
Ahh.... The search is the hard part... You  could use something like this

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscook/chapter/ch01.html

But I think you could write something simpler.

It may be an idea to look at dojo's collections.

Also take a look at http://www.propeller-head.biz/demo/desktop/

There are some quite nice javascript widgets which will sort data on the client. They may work for what you are looking to do. Like http://www.openrico.org/rico/livegrid.page

What you have described is quite simple as your server is acting as the master. There is no requirement to sync back the data from the client to the server.



On 3/29/07, Babelex <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ok say for example we were using something simple like an address book
webapp , with a couple of domain objects like contact, company and
maybe a small picture of each person. But I would like my customers to
use this address book offline also. So of course I wouldn't expect
them to have things like prescence and chat wwhen offline but one
would for example expect to be able to search the addrees book for a
contact, see the contact pic and retreive say the telephone number.

Could I use the Firefox offline model to acheive this relatively
simple app? and how do I code the contact search, and picture indexing
etc.. . Also how do I tell Firefox how to store or cache the domain
objects?



On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> This is all very hypothetical without having an application in mind. If you
> where developing an application to hold peoples travel itinerary, then you
> would would use a snapshot approach and javascript solution is better. The
> user would just have to install Firefox, and not a massive download of Java
> + jetty + etc.....
>
> If on the other hand you where developing a system to record the flora of
> the jungle, and user had to input allot of data then having a full blown web
> server on client is a better solution.
>
> With the javascript model you would still use grails to render the xml to
> your client. You would then use one of the javascript frameworks to handel
> the data on the client end.

>
> The complex bit is handling conflicts between different sets of data.
>
>
> On 3/29/07, Babelex <[hidden email] > wrote:
> >
> > On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > >For the user using firefox's local storage would be easy. They point
> > the >browser at a web page. The webpage would synchronize the data,
> > and >then when they where offline they would still have access to the
> > data. >Simple....
> >
> > >

> > > On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their
> > > offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded
> database
> > > (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the
> connection
> > > is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.
> > > >
> >
> > I could envisage how the zinbra/jetty/derby/gorm would work as the
> > models at both ends are similar, what I have trouble imagining however
> > is how one can acheive synchronisation between something based on Gorm
> > objects and a remote cache using the Firefox offline solution, I just
> > wouldn't know where to begin, thats really why I am asking?
> >
> > Does it mean for a 'Simple data solution' we have to throw away the
> > Gorm based model in Grails and use some other way of modelling that we
> > can more easily combine with the Firefox offline model?
> >
> >
> > --
> > regards
> > Al
> > http://www.folknology.com/index.html
> > #OpenSource means free to innovate#
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> >
> >      http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >
> >
>
>


--
regards
Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Siegfried Puchbauer
but you have to implement that search functionality twice ... except when you use only client side search which never can be as fast and powerful as lucene

On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ahh.... The search is the hard part... You  could use something like this

<a href="http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscook/chapter/ch01.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscook/chapter/ch01.html

But I think you could write something simpler.

It may be an idea to look at dojo's collections.

Also take a look at <a href="http://www.propeller-head.biz/demo/desktop/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.propeller-head.biz/demo/desktop/

There are some quite nice javascript widgets which will sort data on the client. They may work for what you are looking to do. Like <a href="http://www.openrico.org/rico/livegrid.page" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.openrico.org/rico/livegrid.page

What you have described is quite simple as your server is acting as the master. There is no requirement to sync back the data from the client to the server.




On 3/29/07, Babelex <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ok say for example we were using something simple like an address book
webapp , with a couple of domain objects like contact, company and
maybe a small picture of each person. But I would like my customers to
use this address book offline also. So of course I wouldn't expect
them to have things like prescence and chat wwhen offline but one
would for example expect to be able to search the addrees book for a
contact, see the contact pic and retreive say the telephone number.

Could I use the Firefox offline model to acheive this relatively
simple app? and how do I code the contact search, and picture indexing
etc.. . Also how do I tell Firefox how to store or cache the domain
objects?



On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> This is all very hypothetical without having an application in mind. If you
> where developing an application to hold peoples travel itinerary, then you
> would would use a snapshot approach and javascript solution is better. The
> user would just have to install Firefox, and not a massive download of Java
> + jetty + etc.....
>
> If on the other hand you where developing a system to record the flora of
> the jungle, and user had to input allot of data then having a full blown web
> server on client is a better solution.
>
> With the javascript model you would still use grails to render the xml to
> your client. You would then use one of the javascript frameworks to handel
> the data on the client end.

>
> The complex bit is handling conflicts between different sets of data.
>
>
> On 3/29/07, Babelex <[hidden email] > wrote:
> >
> > On 3/29/07, James Page <[hidden email] > wrote:
> > >For the user using firefox's local storage would be easy. They point
> > the >browser at a web page. The webpage would synchronize the data,
> > and >then when they where offline they would still have access to the
> > data. >Simple....
> >
> > >

> > > On 3/28/07, Siegfried Puchbauer < [hidden email] > wrote:
> > > > With grails it could work in a way zimbra has introduced with their
> > > offline client. Its just a local web server (jetty) with a embedded
> database
> > > (derby) + lucene which sync with the "real" application when the
> connection
> > > is available. Should also be implementable with grails in such a way.
> > > >
> >
> > I could envisage how the zinbra/jetty/derby/gorm would work as the
> > models at both ends are similar, what I have trouble imagining however
> > is how one can acheive synchronisation between something based on Gorm
> > objects and a remote cache using the Firefox offline solution, I just
> > wouldn't know where to begin, thats really why I am asking?
> >
> > Does it mean for a 'Simple data solution' we have to throw away the
> > Gorm based model in Grails and use some other way of modelling that we
> > can more easily combine with the Firefox offline model?
> >
> >
> > --
> > regards
> > Al

> > <a href="http://www.folknology.com/index.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.folknology.com/index.html
> > #OpenSource means free to innovate#
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
> >
> >      <a href="http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
> >
> >
>
>


--
regards
Al
<a href="http://www.folknology.com/index.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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Re: Rails - Slingshot

Babelex
The problem I would have is that the logic is becoming embedded in the
view which would result in a downward slide for the codebase, unless
we are also saying we also have to drop MVC, or at least considerably
refactor it. And I am very aware that the entire app could of course
be written in javascript but that is entirely beside the point.

I would also state that the address book does have multiple users and
would need to be able to synchronise, as it is a web based app shared
by company employees (Otherwise one could use a desktop app!). So
synchronisation is key. The rulse for synching aren't that complex
just adopt a CVS approach, prompting the user on conflicts. Simpler
still only provide 'read' access whilst offline.

The question still remains how does one do it? does FireFox have some
kind of lite relational store and interface that the javascript can
access like a local server, or are we talking about cookie storage or
something?

Could a Grails js code library be deployed that would intermediate all
CRUD operations and magically switch between the two modes
online/offline?


Is there a url that shows how the Firefox offlining works, I can't
seem to find any references to it.

--
regards
Al
http://www.folknology.com/index.html
#OpenSource means free to innovate#

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