Roo @ Google IO

[Gregory Pierce]

So.... What's the deal guys. We now have a lot of weight from spring source being thrown behind Roo at GoogleIo and seemingly nothing behind Grails. Since you guys all have the same parent, what's going on?

[smaldini]

Gr8conf -> gr8conf.org

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Gregory Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

So.... What's the deal guys. We now have a lot of weight from spring source
being thrown behind Roo at GoogleIo and seemingly nothing behind Grails.
Since you guys all have the same parent, what's going on?
--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Roo-Google-IO-tp2223240p2223240.html
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[Nick Collins-2]

In either case, I hope they have solved the Hibernate domain object serialization issues for these plugins/extensions so I don't have to hack it to get it to work

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Stephane Maldini <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gr8conf -> gr8conf.org

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Gregory Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

So.... What's the deal guys. We now have a lot of weight from spring source
being thrown behind Roo at GoogleIo and seemingly nothing behind Grails.
Since you guys all have the same parent, what's going on?
--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Roo-Google-IO-tp2223240p2223240.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Dean Del Ponte-2]

Spring Roo seems to be the choice for dev shops that are unwilling or unable to use anything other than pure Java.  Grails is a much more elegant and easy to use solution in my opinion.  I do wish it got more love and promotion form SpringSource though.

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Nick Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:

In either case, I hope they have solved the Hibernate domain object serialization issues for these plugins/extensions so I don't have to hack it to get it to work

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Stephane Maldini <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gr8conf -> gr8conf.org

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Gregory Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

So.... What's the deal guys. We now have a lot of weight from spring source
being thrown behind Roo at GoogleIo and seemingly nothing behind Grails.
Since you guys all have the same parent, what's going on?
--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Roo-Google-IO-tp2223240p2223240.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Lee Butts]

On 20 May 2010 14:14, Dean Del Ponte <[hidden email]> wrote:

I do wish it got more love and promotion form SpringSource though.

+1000!!

 

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Nick Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:

In either case, I hope they have solved the Hibernate domain object serialization issues for these plugins/extensions so I don't have to hack it to get it to work

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Stephane Maldini <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gr8conf -> gr8conf.org

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Gregory Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

So.... What's the deal guys. We now have a lot of weight from spring source
being thrown behind Roo at GoogleIo and seemingly nothing behind Grails.
Since you guys all have the same parent, what's going on?
--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Roo-Google-IO-tp2223240p2223240.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[smaldini]

It's cool as it, less people know our secret weapon to make good webware !

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 6:06 AM, Lee Butts <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 20 May 2010 14:14, Dean Del Ponte <[hidden email]> wrote:

I do wish it got more love and promotion form SpringSource though.

+1000!!

 

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Nick Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:

In either case, I hope they have solved the Hibernate domain object serialization issues for these plugins/extensions so I don't have to hack it to get it to work

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Stephane Maldini <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gr8conf -> gr8conf.org

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Gregory Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

So.... What's the deal guys. We now have a lot of weight from spring source
being thrown behind Roo at GoogleIo and seemingly nothing behind Grails.
Since you guys all have the same parent, what's going on?
--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Roo-Google-IO-tp2223240p2223240.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Stéphane MALDINI
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[hidden email]
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http://fr.linkedin.com/in/smaldini

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Stéphane MALDINI
doc4web consultant
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[Müller, Wolfgang]

I agree.

However, I also see the other side.

I think grails would have a lot to gain if it made migration easier or if it would provide migration examples. I think there is simply a whole lot of applications out there that are Spring MVC or JSF or... with tons of JAVA. Now someone comes along and goes like "you can move to this framework for free" then people jump on that band wagon.

I am in a position that from time to time we need to add modules that are quite distinct from the rest of our software. These I can do in Grails. But there are these big chunks of ugly inherited JAVA/JSP/non-Struts/non-SpringMVC application lying around that I have not yet figured out on how to merge them easily with a Grails app, so that new additions to that software I make will be Grails, eventually and gradually replacing the JAVA I have. In a situation like that a not-quite-grails that promises easier porting is already a step into the right direction.

I naively think a visible case study on that type of problem would help Grails a lot. As things stand now, people think that Grails is an all-or-nothing experience.

In addition: A small team churns out an unbelievable lot of features with some bugs in the .0 releases, people complaining about that etc., and some people overlook that most problems are fixed really quickly by the top notch people (Gralshüter, we would say in German ;-) ).

Cheers,
Wolfgang

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 4:14 AM, Dean Del Ponte <[hidden email]> wrote:

Spring Roo seems to be the choice for dev shops that are unwilling or unable to use anything other than pure Java.  Grails is a much more elegant and easy to use solution in my opinion.  I do wish it got more love and promotion form SpringSource though.

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Nick Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:

In either case, I hope they have solved the Hibernate domain object serialization issues for these plugins/extensions so I don't have to hack it to get it to work

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Stephane Maldini <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gr8conf -> gr8conf.org

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Gregory Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

So.... What's the deal guys. We now have a lot of weight from spring source
being thrown behind Roo at GoogleIo and seemingly nothing behind Grails.
Since you guys all have the same parent, what's going on?
--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Roo-Google-IO-tp2223240p2223240.html
Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Marcel Overdijk]

Yes indeed +1000

[Robert Fletcher]

Can you really migrate any framework for free? I'd be just as
apprehensive about doing that with Roo as with Grails. Frankly it's
not a task I'd relish under any circumstances.

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[haah]

grails need more love !!!

[Müller, Wolfgang]

For free is an exaggerated expression.

However, having looked from far at Roo and from more closely at Grails I would expect to have to do more in Grails. And I think it would be great publicity if Grails could counter this expectation.

I think quite some applications are more or less legacy. Applications that have to interface with old stuff or have to reuse old stuff. Ruby on Rails is great for making new software. Grails is also great for making new software, I personally like Grails better than Rails. But where I find that Grails really shines is when interfacing to legacy databases. So +1 for Grails.

I guess it would be +10 for Grails if there was somewhere a comparative case study comparing migration to Roo and to Grails that does not only address green-field projects.

Cheers,
Wolfgang

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Robert Fletcher <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can you really migrate any framework for free? I'd be just as
apprehensive about doing that with Roo as with Grails. Frankly it's
not a task I'd relish under any circumstances.

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[Björn Wilmsmann-2]

I don't really get that either. Especially, since Roo is kind of
useful but nowhere near as cool as Grails, which is all that matters
for a conference like Google I/O, isn't it? ;)

On 19 May 2010 19:31, Gregory Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> So.... What's the deal guys. We now have a lot of weight from spring source
> being thrown behind Roo at GoogleIo and seemingly nothing behind Grails.
> Since you guys all have the same parent, what's going on?
> --
> View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Roo-Google-IO-tp2223240p2223240.html
> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
>    http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

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Björn Wilmsmann

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[Tom Gullo]

Groovy needs a better Cloud solution IMO. Ruby/Rails has Heroku, and Python/Django has Appengine.  There is Gaelyk, but load times for JVM apps on appengine are 10 seconds+ unless you have people using your app every minute of the day.

[Ketul Gandhi-2]

It seems that SpringSource treats "Spring Roo" as its own child while Grails as adopted child (acquired company). May be if the name were "Spring Grails" they would push it more. 

I read about Roo application developed on STS and tc server and Spring Insight integration with Google Speed Tracer, but is there any plan to develop Spring Insight plugin for Grails for those who choose to use IDEA/Textmate and tomcat/jetty?

As a Grails user, I would be concerned if SpringSource continues to push Roo more than Grails. It would also be interesting to know how much budget/resources they allocate for each. 

2010/5/20 Björn Wilmsmann <[hidden email]>

I don't really get that either. Especially, since Roo is kind of
useful but nowhere near as cool as Grails, which is all that matters
for a conference like Google I/O, isn't it? ;)

On 19 May 2010 19:31, Gregory Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So.... What's the deal guys. We now have a lot of weight from spring source
> being thrown behind Roo at GoogleIo and seemingly nothing behind Grails.
> Since you guys all have the same parent, what's going on?
> --
> View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Roo-Google-IO-tp2223240p2223240.html

> Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
>    http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
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[Björn Wilmsmann-2]

On 20 May 2010 20:46, Ketul Gandhi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It seems that SpringSource treats "Spring Roo" as its own child while Grails
> as adopted child (acquired company). May be if the name were "Spring Grails"
> they would push it more.

I don't really think this is about the name. Furthermore, replacing a
well-established name with a new more complex one doesn't seem like a
good idea in the first place.

> I read about Roo application developed on STS and tc server and Spring
> Insight integration with Google Speed Tracer, but is there any plan to
> develop Spring Insight plugin for Grails for those who choose to use
> IDEA/Textmate and tomcat/jetty?

I don't think they will because STS is a SpringSource child while IDEA
and Textmate are essentially competing products. As for tcserver I
don't see why this shouldn't be possible with other servlet containers
because tcserver basically is a beefed up version of Tomcat.

> As a Grails user, I would be concerned if SpringSource continues to push Roo
> more than Grails. It would also be interesting to know how much
> budget/resources they allocate for each.

I suppose they won't tell :) I'm not sure about their strategy with
Roo either but Grails most certainly has much more potential.

While Roo is nice for providing legacy Java apps with convention over
configuration and rapid app development features that's about it.

In contrast to that, in my opinion Grails has a lot more to offer.

--
Viele Grüße / Best regards,
Björn Wilmsmann

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[Jeff Brown-3]

2010/5/20 Björn Wilmsmann <[hidden email]>:
>
>> I read about Roo application developed on STS and tc server and Spring
>> Insight integration with Google Speed Tracer, but is there any plan to
>> develop Spring Insight plugin for Grails for those who choose to use
>> IDEA/Textmate and tomcat/jetty?
>
> I don't think they will because STS is a SpringSource child while IDEA
> and Textmate are essentially competing products.

Coming soon.  Stay tuned...



jb

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SpringSource
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Autism Strikes 1 in 166
Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
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[Ketul Gandhi-2]

2010/5/20 Björn Wilmsmann <[hidden email]>

On 20 May 2010 20:46, Ketul Gandhi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It seems that SpringSource treats "Spring Roo" as its own child while Grails
> as adopted child (acquired company). May be if the name were "Spring Grails"
> they would push it more.

I don't really think this is about the name. Furthermore, replacing a
well-established name with a new more complex one doesn't seem like a
good idea in the first place.

I am not proposing name change. I was just saying that may be the logic is that any product name that starts with "Spring" gets more marketing budget. or may be that is not the logic. 

[smaldini]

For me it appears than Grails is going fine actually, this is a mainstream technologie unlike Spring Roo which is still for toy projects (please link me use cases like Wired, French Ministry of Health/Education, sitorsquat :D ...) .
Spring Roo gets some isolated hype, which successfully give to SpringSource/VMware some advertising. It's like Scala thing, this old jvm language which just getting spotlights on it, but where is the powerful and mainstream framework like Grails, where are the use cases, and by the way can they stop their fucking flame war on performances because who cares....

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Ketul Gandhi <[hidden email]> wrote:

2010/5/20 Björn Wilmsmann <[hidden email]>

On 20 May 2010 20:46, Ketul Gandhi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It seems that SpringSource treats "Spring Roo" as its own child while Grails
> as adopted child (acquired company). May be if the name were "Spring Grails"
> they would push it more.

I don't really think this is about the name. Furthermore, replacing a
well-established name with a new more complex one doesn't seem like a
good idea in the first place.

I am not proposing name change. I was just saying that may be the logic is that any product name that starts with "Spring" gets more marketing budget. or may be that is not the logic. 

--
Stéphane MALDINI
doc4web consultant
[hidden email]
--
http://fr.linkedin.com/in/smaldini

[smaldini]

I just get a filtered content message on my mail, it's better as I said too many bad things I think about roo and even scala ;D

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Ketul Gandhi <[hidden email]> wrote:

2010/5/20 Björn Wilmsmann <[hidden email]>

On 20 May 2010 20:46, Ketul Gandhi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It seems that SpringSource treats "Spring Roo" as its own child while Grails
> as adopted child (acquired company). May be if the name were "Spring Grails"
> they would push it more.

I don't really think this is about the name. Furthermore, replacing a
well-established name with a new more complex one doesn't seem like a
good idea in the first place.

I am not proposing name change. I was just saying that may be the logic is that any product name that starts with "Spring" gets more marketing budget. or may be that is not the logic. 

--
Stéphane MALDINI
doc4web consultant
[hidden email]
--
http://fr.linkedin.com/in/smaldini

--
Stéphane MALDINI
doc4web consultant
[hidden email]
--
http://fr.linkedin.com/in/smaldini

[Björn Wilmsmann-2]

Well, for Scala there's Lift ... Not meaning to start a flame war but
to put it into context: It neither has the traction, community nor
extensive documentation Grails has. Besides, the examples from
http://liftweb.net/docs/getting_started/mod_master.html look horrible.
Maven for creating apps and artefacts, lots of boilerplate code in
models ...

However, there is one hugely popular use case for Scala alone:
Twitter. Back when they had those huge scaling problems they abandoned
their Ruby back end for a concurrent Scala messaging system. Their
front end is still running on Rails, though.

On 21 May 2010 01:02, Stephane Maldini <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Spring Roo gets some isolated hype, which successfully give to
> SpringSource/VMware some advertising. It's like Scala thing, this old jvm
> language which just getting spotlights on it, but where is the powerful and
> mainstream framework like Grails, where are the use cases

--
Viele Grüße / Best regards, Björn Wilmsmann
Geschäftsführer / CEO

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