Some words about Grails vs Rails

[Guillaume Laforge-2]

Hello,

A French guy wrote the following entry on Grails vs Rails:
http://jroller.com/page/bmoussaud?entry=ruby_on_rails_contre_grails

Which translates (not too badly) thanks to Google to:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fjroller.com%2Fpage%2Fbmoussaud%3Fentry%3Druby_on_rails_contre_grails&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

Do you think the Rails creator(s) fear Grails? ;-)

Have a nice week-end!

--
Guillaume Laforge
Groovy Project Manager
http://glaforge.free.fr/blog/groovy

[Stephan.Schmidt]

In the end I think it boils down to who has more comitters and  
developers.

And in that area Grails has much more potetnial because of Java/ Groovy.

bye
-stephan

PS: Yes they should.

> Hello,
>
> A French guy wrote the following entry on Grails vs Rails:
> http://jroller.com/page/bmoussaud?entry=ruby_on_rails_contre_grails
>
> Which translates (not too badly) thanks to Google to:
> <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fjroller.com%">http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fjroller.com% 
> 2Fpage%2Fbmoussaud%3Fentry%3Druby_on_rails_contre_grails&langpair=fr
> %7Cen&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
>
> Do you think the Rails creator(s) fear Grails? ;-)
>
> Have a nice week-end!
>
> --
> Guillaume Laforge
> Groovy Project Manager
> http://glaforge.free.fr/blog/groovy

--
   Stephan Schmidt
   [hidden email]

   PRESS ON. Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
   Talent will not; nothing in the world is more common than  
unsuccessful
   men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a  
proverb.
   Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  
Persistence
   and determination alone are omnipotent. - Calvin Coolidge

[Darren Hoo]

does gorm support cascade="none" how can I do that?

[graemer]

On 4/14/06, darren <[hidden email]> wrote:
> does gorm support cascade="none" how can I do that?
Darren if you define that a domain class "belongsTo" another one then
it will not cascade deletes..

otherwise if you need more power over configuring cascading updates
the only other option is to map you domain class with hibernate

Graeme

>

[Eelco Hillenius]

> Do you think the Rails creator(s) fear Grails? ;-)

They should :) I'm currently working for a company that uses Wicket
for the high-complexity systems, but that is considering Grails for
some of the other systems, like the public web site. We don't even
consider RoR for many reasons, but one of the main ones being that we
wouldn't be able to reuse our Java service layer with Ruby. And not
being able to use all those neat Java libs like Lucene etc is also a
major disadvantage of RoR.

Otoh, Grails probably doesn't attract as much to the PHP crowd as
there's still that scarry Java under the hood ;)

Eelco

[Dierk König]

Guys,

I very much appreciate your support for Grails in this discussion.

However, we should not forget that without Rails, there would
probably be no Grails either and that our Rails friends paved the
road for us. They deserve our respect.

Talking about fear and such doesn't help.

I support Grails from the first day on because I firmly believe
it is needed (beside being really cool). Meanwhile, I feel a bit
guilty of withdrawing attraction from Rails this way.

The merits of Grails are so obvious that we don't need to put
down Rails in any way. Let's only focus on what we love about
our own baby.

cheers
Mittie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eelco Hillenius [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Freitag, 14. April 2006 19:59
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Some words about Grails vs Rails
>
>
> > Do you think the Rails creator(s) fear Grails? ;-)
>
> They should :) I'm currently working for a company that uses Wicket
> for the high-complexity systems, but that is considering Grails for
> some of the other systems, like the public web site. We don't even
> consider RoR for many reasons, but one of the main ones being that we
> wouldn't be able to reuse our Java service layer with Ruby. And not
> being able to use all those neat Java libs like Lucene etc is also a
> major disadvantage of RoR.
>
> Otoh, Grails probably doesn't attract as much to the PHP crowd as
> there's still that scarry Java under the hood ;)
>
> Eelco

[a.shneyderman]

you beat me to it :-) I was taking too long to respond.

I like Grails, I like RoR. no need to pique, really. just keep working

you guys are doing a fantastic job

an extremely thankfull customer,
alex.

On 4/14/06, Dierk Koenig <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Guys,
>
> I very much appreciate your support for Grails in this discussion.
>
> However, we should not forget that without Rails, there would
> probably be no Grails either and that our Rails friends paved the
> road for us. They deserve our respect.
>
> Talking about fear and such doesn't help.
>
> I support Grails from the first day on because I firmly believe
> it is needed (beside being really cool). Meanwhile, I feel a bit
> guilty of withdrawing attraction from Rails this way.
>
> The merits of Grails are so obvious that we don't need to put
> down Rails in any way. Let's only focus on what we love about
> our own baby.
>
> cheers
> Mittie
>

[Stephan.Schmidt]

>
> The merits of Grails are so obvious that we don't need to put
> down Rails in any way. Let's only focus on what we love about
> our own baby.
>

In the whole discussion, I haven't read a statement which
was "putting Rails down" in any way.

bye
-stephan

PS: I guess most of us have been using Rails for some time
and are deeply satisfied. But there are limitiations and it
should be fair game to discuss the possible future
of other frameworks.

> cheers
> Mittie
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Eelco Hillenius [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Freitag, 14. April 2006 19:59
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] Some words about Grails vs Rails
>>
>>
>>> Do you think the Rails creator(s) fear Grails? ;-)
>>
>> They should :) I'm currently working for a company that uses Wicket
>> for the high-complexity systems, but that is considering Grails for
>> some of the other systems, like the public web site. We don't even
>> consider RoR for many reasons, but one of the main ones being that we
>> wouldn't be able to reuse our Java service layer with Ruby. And not
>> being able to use all those neat Java libs like Lucene etc is also a
>> major disadvantage of RoR.
>>
>> Otoh, Grails probably doesn't attract as much to the PHP crowd as
>> there's still that scarry Java under the hood ;)
>>
>> Eelco

--  
   Stephan Schmidt
   [hidden email]

   PRESS ON. Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
   Talent will not; nothing in the world is more common than  
unsuccessful
   men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a  
proverb.
   Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  
Persistence
   and determination alone are omnipotent. - Calvin Coolidge

[Eelco Hillenius]

> However, we should not forget that without Rails, there would
> probably be no Grails either and that our Rails friends paved the
> road for us. They deserve our respect.

Sure. Though part of their success comes from Java bashing, so I
wouldn't feel too guilty about stating that Java is a better choice
for a lot of situations.

> I support Grails from the first day on because I firmly believe
> it is needed (beside being really cool). Meanwhile, I feel a bit
> guilty of withdrawing attraction from Rails this way.

It's a jungle out there. The more (fair, merits based) competition,
the better the frameworks get for their users. I certainly *hope* that
Grails would worry RoR, because chances are that would improve both.

> The merits of Grails are so obvious that we don't need to put
> down Rails in any way. Let's only focus on what we love about
> our own baby.

And let's not forget what we (or you as I'm currently just evaluating)
don't love about it, as that will only make Grails better too!

Peace :)

Eelco

[Dierk König]

> Sure. Though part of their success comes from Java bashing

Yes, there are always people being over-enthusiatic and going overboard.
I laughed about their recent demand that Java should 'retire in
dignity' ;-)

But if others do it wrong, this should not be a reason to do the
same but rather to do it better.

> And let's not forget what we (or you as I'm currently just evaluating)
> don't love about it, as that will only make Grails better too!

Suggestions for improvement are always welcome.

Being a bit in philosophical mood tonight, please allow me to add the
following (and ignore it if it you feel it's 'too much').
For me, 'competition' and 'struggle for better ideas' are not the same
thing, neither are 'complaints' and 'suggestions for improvement'.
It is not only the difference in wording, it is the difference
in attitude.
In a private mail discussion with Kent Beck, he told me
"progress comes from the disagreement of friends".
We need the disagreement to stir things up. But we also need to
understand that the other guy has some reason to see things
differently.

good night
Mittie