Would you like a forum on springsource.org?

[Marc Palmer Local]

On 4 May 2010, at 13:26, Robert Fletcher wrote:

> +1 mailing list
>
> Why?
> 1) I use GMail, so I have 15000 odd threads from this mailing list
> happily archived & searchable, failing that I can use Nabble.
> 2) I can use filters to highlight people asking questions about my
> plugins. With a forum I'd have to remember to search periodically.
> 3) I can respond to the mailing list using any email client.
> 4) I can browse the mailing list on the go with my phone (not
> necessarily impossible with a forum but likely to be less convenient
> or usable).
> 5) The mailing list is all content, not decorated with SpringSource
> branding or awkward UI.
>
> KISS - a forum is complexity we don't need with no useful upside.

Could not have said it better myself :)

Perhaps what would work nicely is having an online web interface (e.g. embedded Nabble or similar) in grails.org

Marc


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[Ignacio Cases]

+1 mailing list

[Glenn Saqui-3]

+1 mailing list
-1 forum

[Ken Ellinwood]

+1 mailing list
-1 forum

+1 to all of Robert Fletchers comments

[Daniel Honig]

+1 mailing list

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ken Ellinwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
> +1 mailing list
> -1 forum
>
> +1 to all of Robert Fletchers comments
>
>
>
>

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[tomas lin]

+1 mailing list
-1 forum unless we can build a super awesome grails wrapper around the
mailing list that looks like a forum.



On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Daniel Honig <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 mailing list
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ken Ellinwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> +1 mailing list
>> -1 forum
>>
>> +1 to all of Robert Fletchers comments
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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[Stokes_Chris]

+1 mailing list

-- Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Honig [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:57 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [grails-user] Would you like a forum on springsource.org?

+1 mailing list

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ken Ellinwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> +1 mailing list
> -1 forum
>
> +1 to all of Robert Fletchers comments
>
>
>
>

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[Erik Pragt]

Hi Peter,

Well, you can't say you didn't get any response! A quick count on the feedback so far:

forum: 6 votes
mailing list: 15 votes

Erik





On 4 mei 2010, at 08:19, Peter Ledbrook wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> We have been considering adding a Grails forum to the springsource.org
> community website. One reason is that many people prefer the forum
> approach to that of a mailing list. Another reason is that it will
> help Grails feel like a part of the SpringSource family.
>
> The question is, what do you, the users, think of the idea? If most
> would like a forum, should we still keep the mailing list?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter
>
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[Patrick G.]

+1 forums
-1 mailing list

I find that for many of the reasons Robert outlined, I have the opposite opinion.  It takes time to build up a knowledge base that large and why do that when it can be distributed online.  Being new to Grails, the forum gives me remote access to all post while only pulling topics I have knowledge about, not pushing everything to me.  I also find that forums can usually provide filters for me so that I am not overloaded with the number of emails that I really don't want.  If I need to search for topics that I did not receive via the list, I can search online.  It is nice being able to respond using the email client.  I can live with the mailing list so long as a forum is in front of the content, much like we have here.  What I really wouldn't like to happen is to have to many list to comb.  Much rather have one location.


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Fletcher [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 7:26 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [grails-user] Would you like a forum on springsource.org?

+1 mailing list

Why?
1) I use GMail, so I have 15000 odd threads from this mailing list
happily archived & searchable, failing that I can use Nabble.
2) I can use filters to highlight people asking questions about my
plugins. With a forum I'd have to remember to search periodically.
3) I can respond to the mailing list using any email client.
4) I can browse the mailing list on the go with my phone (not
necessarily impossible with a forum but likely to be less convenient
or usable).
5) The mailing list is all content, not decorated with SpringSource
branding or awkward UI.

KISS - a forum is complexity we don't need with no useful upside.

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[Marc Palmer Local]

On 4 May 2010, at 15:49, Gallagher,Patrick wrote:

> +1 forums
> -1 mailing list
>
> I find that for many of the reasons Robert outlined, I have the opposite opinion.  It takes time to build up a knowledge base that large and why do that when it can be distributed online.  Being new to Grails, the forum gives me remote access to all post while only pulling topics I have knowledge about, not pushing everything to me.  I also find that forums can usually provide filters for me so that I am not overloaded with the number of emails that I really don't want.  If I need to search for topics that I did not receive via the list, I can search online.  It is nice being able to respond using the email client.  I can live with the mailing list so long as a forum is in front of the content, much like we have here.  What I really wouldn't like to happen is to have to many list to comb.  Much rather have one location.

You can get just the bits you want by browsing the myriad online mail archives including Nabble, which give a forum-like view.

i.e. this facility exists already for free here:

http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Grails-user-f1312389.html

Building it into Grails.org would give Grails/SS branding to it, but I don't see that any new functionality is required. OK you might need a separate login for Nabble, but one day nabble and grails.org could share via openid or similar.


Marc
~ ~ ~
Marc Palmer
Blog         > http://www.anyware.co.uk
Twitter      > http://twitter.com/wangjammer5
Grails Rocks > http://www.grailsrocks.com







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[bendoerr]

+1 Mailing List

The mailing list is active and useful. Why change that. I agree with all the arguments made by those speaking out for the mailing list.

Ben

[Patrick G.]

Yep, the mailing list is ok so long as it is exposed via a forum, much as I said in the post..."I can live with the mailing list so long as a forum is in front of the content, much like we have here."  You do also bring up a good point (on the side of forums) that I can consolidate my accounts.

Patrick Gallagher | Software Engineer | Cerner Corporation | Office: 816.201.1587 | Fax: [phone] | [hidden email] | www.cerner.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Palmer [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 10:13 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [grails-user] Would you like a forum on springsource.org?


On 4 May 2010, at 15:49, Gallagher,Patrick wrote:

> +1 forums
> -1 mailing list
>
> I find that for many of the reasons Robert outlined, I have the opposite opinion.  It takes time to build up a knowledge base that large and why do that when it can be distributed online.  Being new to Grails, the forum gives me remote access to all post while only pulling topics I have knowledge about, not pushing everything to me.  I also find that forums can usually provide filters for me so that I am not overloaded with the number of emails that I really don't want.  If I need to search for topics that I did not receive via the list, I can search online.  It is nice being able to respond using the email client.  I can live with the mailing list so long as a forum is in front of the content, much like we have here.  What I really wouldn't like to happen is to have to many list to comb.  Much rather have one location.

You can get just the bits you want by browsing the myriad online mail archives including Nabble, which give a forum-like view.

i.e. this facility exists already for free here:

http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Grails-user-f1312389.html

Building it into Grails.org would give Grails/SS branding to it, but I don't see that any new functionality is required. OK you might need a separate login for Nabble, but one day nabble and grails.org could share via openid or similar.


Marc
~ ~ ~
Marc Palmer
Blog         > http://www.anyware.co.uk
Twitter      > http://twitter.com/wangjammer5
Grails Rocks > http://www.grailsrocks.com







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[smaldini]

haha all the community is answering ! However would be interesting to get core team point of view :)

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:20 PM, bendoerr <[hidden email]> wrote:

+1 Mailing List

The mailing list is active and useful. Why change that. I agree with all the
arguments made by those speaking out for the mailing list.

Ben
--
View this message in context: http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Would-you-like-a-forum-on-springsource-org-tp2125049p2125742.html

Sent from the Grails - user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[hidden email]
--
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[Matthew Taylor-2]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:30 AM, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> No thanks - I for one would not be able to monitor a forum actively. Mail is push. I can use my own mail rules to pick up mails relating to my plugins, separate mails from people I know from people I don't etc.
>
> IMO a forum would only work for people who like the mailing list if you could get all new posts via mail and have a built in link to instantly respond by mail.
>
> Personally I think it asks too much of plugin authors to monitor a web forum (that is not specific to their own plugins) actively.
>
> Marc
> ~ ~ ~
> Marc Palmer

I have the same opinion as Marc. I answer questions about GrailsUI
purely through my email, because I have filters set up to notify me
when someone posts a question on that topic.

But...

If the forum had a section for my plugin that I could monitor with
RSS, I could acheive the same goal of only reading what is relevant to
my contributions to the platform, and there would be less potential of
missing questions that don't have my search text in them. So I guess I
could get on board with a forum if there were topical sections and RSS
feeds per section.

--
matthew taylor
yahoo! front-end engineer
[hidden email]

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[johnrellis]

Before Nabble was upgraded, people could post to the user list through nabble without having their inbox's filled with user list mail.

This is an annoyance for some people, I am not one of them, I like being on the list.

If it was possible to post to nabble and have that directed to the user list but at the same time not get emails from the user list...this might be some sort of compromise.

The people that chose this route would of course rely on nabble for being notified of responses.

This may not be possible but I am pretty sure nabble was like this before the upgrade to the newer version.

Hope this helps!
John

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 4 May 2010, at 15:49, Gallagher,Patrick wrote:

> +1 forums
> -1 mailing list
>
> I find that for many of the reasons Robert outlined, I have the opposite opinion.  It takes time to build up a knowledge base that large and why do that when it can be distributed online.  Being new to Grails, the forum gives me remote access to all post while only pulling topics I have knowledge about, not pushing everything to me.  I also find that forums can usually provide filters for me so that I am not overloaded with the number of emails that I really don't want.  If I need to search for topics that I did not receive via the list, I can search online.  It is nice being able to respond using the email client.  I can live with the mailing list so long as a forum is in front of the content, much like we have here.  What I really wouldn't like to happen is to have to many list to comb.  Much rather have one location.

You can get just the bits you want by browsing the myriad online mail archives including Nabble, which give a forum-like view.

i.e. this facility exists already for free here:

http://grails.1312388.n4.nabble.com/Grails-user-f1312389.html

Building it into Grails.org would give Grails/SS branding to it, but I don't see that any new functionality is required. OK you might need a separate login for Nabble, but one day nabble and grails.org could share via openid or similar.

Marc
~ ~ ~
Marc Palmer
Blog         > http://www.anyware.co.uk
Twitter      > http://twitter.com/wangjammer5
Grails Rocks > http://www.grailsrocks.com







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[Wilson MacGyver]

I'd also vote for mailing list. While I don't post very much, I do
read both grails and grails-dev
list regularly via my phone. It'd be way harder to read the forum that way.

+1 mailing list.

I don't have an opinion on forum being created either way. My biggest
fear is of course
if you keep both mailing list and forum it will cause a "split" in the
user community,
effectively requiring most of the plugin developers and contributors
to monitor both.

No one wants to do the same work twice. :)

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Matthew Taylor <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:30 AM, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> No thanks - I for one would not be able to monitor a forum actively. Mail is push. I can use my own mail rules to pick up mails relating to my plugins, separate mails from people I know from people I don't etc.
>>
>> IMO a forum would only work for people who like the mailing list if you could get all new posts via mail and have a built in link to instantly respond by mail.
>>
>> Personally I think it asks too much of plugin authors to monitor a web forum (that is not specific to their own plugins) actively.
>>
>> Marc
>> ~ ~ ~
>> Marc Palmer
>
> I have the same opinion as Marc. I answer questions about GrailsUI
> purely through my email, because I have filters set up to notify me
> when someone posts a question on that topic.
>
> But...
>
> If the forum had a section for my plugin that I could monitor with
> RSS, I could acheive the same goal of only reading what is relevant to
> my contributions to the platform, and there would be less potential of
> missing questions that don't have my search text in them. So I guess I
> could get on board with a forum if there were topical sections and RSS
> feeds per section.
>
> --
> matthew taylor
> yahoo! front-end engineer
> [hidden email]
>
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>

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[Dean Del Ponte-2]

+1 Mailing List

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Wilson MacGyver <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd also vote for mailing list. While I don't post very much, I do
read both grails and grails-dev
list regularly via my phone. It'd be way harder to read the forum that way.

+1 mailing list.

I don't have an opinion on forum being created either way. My biggest
fear is of course
if you keep both mailing list and forum it will cause a "split" in the
user community,
effectively requiring most of the plugin developers and contributors
to monitor both.

No one wants to do the same work twice. :)

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Matthew Taylor <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:30 AM, Marc Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> No thanks - I for one would not be able to monitor a forum actively. Mail is push. I can use my own mail rules to pick up mails relating to my plugins, separate mails from people I know from people I don't etc.
>>
>> IMO a forum would only work for people who like the mailing list if you could get all new posts via mail and have a built in link to instantly respond by mail.
>>
>> Personally I think it asks too much of plugin authors to monitor a web forum (that is not specific to their own plugins) actively.
>>
>> Marc
>> ~ ~ ~
>> Marc Palmer
>
> I have the same opinion as Marc. I answer questions about GrailsUI
> purely through my email, because I have filters set up to notify me
> when someone posts a question on that topic.
>
> But...
>
> If the forum had a section for my plugin that I could monitor with
> RSS, I could acheive the same goal of only reading what is relevant to
> my contributions to the platform, and there would be less potential of
> missing questions that don't have my search text in them. So I guess I
> could get on board with a forum if there were topical sections and RSS
> feeds per section.
>
> --
> matthew taylor
> yahoo! front-end engineer
> [hidden email]
>
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> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
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>
>

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[pledbrook]

> Could not have said it better myself :)
>
> Perhaps what would work nicely is having an online web interface (e.g. embedded Nabble or similar) in grails.org

This is something I'm looking into. Obviously some people would like
to post and read messages on a forum without registering with the
mailing list. If we can somehow get Nabble working like that, then
we'd cater for most people. I will also look at adding extra forums
via Nabble - I think we could do with a dedicated plugins one at the
very least.

Peter

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[dbrown1975]

CONTENTS DELETED

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[pledbrook]

> haha all the community is answering ! However would be interesting to get
> core team point of view :)

I for one prefer to use GMail because it allows me a single place to
deal with multiple mailing lists/forums. The key seems to be getting
the Nabble forum interface working better with the mailing list.

Peter

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