differences to Rails

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differences to Rails

Jochen Theodorou
Hi,

do we have a pae describing the differences in concepts to rails? I mean
GORM vs ActiveRecord and such. It would help Rails people to see how
much Rails in Grails is and what has to be done in a different way.

bye blackdrag

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Re: differences to Rails

graemer
On 3/22/06, Jochen Theodorou <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> do we have a pae describing the differences in concepts to rails? I mean
> GORM vs ActiveRecord and such. It would help Rails people to see how
> much Rails in Grails is and what has to be done in a different way.
Good idea! I will add one...

Rougly though its something like:

RHTML - GSP
GORM - ActiveRecord
Rails Helpers - Grails TagLibs
Rails Validation - Grails Constraints

Some things not in Rails:

- Services
- TagLibs (again)
- Programmatic BootStrapping
- A scriplet free view tech
- Dyanmic methods without inheritence (eg. not need to extend ActiveRecord)

I've probably missed some things, but thats a start

Graeme
>
> bye blackdrag
>
>
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Re: differences to Rails

Steven Devijver
On 3/23/06, Graeme Rocher <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/22/06, Jochen Theodorou <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > do we have a pae describing the differences in concepts to rails? I mean
> > GORM vs ActiveRecord and such. It would help Rails people to see how
> > much Rails in Grails is and what has to be done in a different way.
> Good idea! I will add one...
>
> Rougly though its something like:
>
> RHTML - GSP
> GORM - ActiveRecord
> Rails Helpers - Grails TagLibs
> Rails Validation - Grails Constraints
>
> Some things not in Rails:
>
> - Services
> - TagLibs (again)
> - Programmatic BootStrapping
> - A scriplet free view tech
> - Dyanmic methods without inheritence (eg. not need to extend ActiveRecord)
>
> I've probably missed some things, but thats a start
>

- Access to the entire Java platform
- Application-based, so JVM is an advantage
- Real transaction management, including propagation levels and
distributed transactions
- Easy integration with enterprise platforms (Weblogic, Websphere, ...)
- Hassle-free integration with existing Java codebases, so ideal for prototyping
- Proxy-based AOP support, next to mixins

I've probably missed some too.

Steven

> Graeme
> >
> > bye blackdrag
> >
> >
>
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Re: differences to Rails

graemer
On 3/23/06, Steven Devijver <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/23/06, Graeme Rocher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 3/22/06, Jochen Theodorou <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > do we have a pae describing the differences in concepts to rails? I mean
> > > GORM vs ActiveRecord and such. It would help Rails people to see how
> > > much Rails in Grails is and what has to be done in a different way.
> > Good idea! I will add one...
> >
> > Rougly though its something like:
> >
> > RHTML - GSP
> > GORM - ActiveRecord
> > Rails Helpers - Grails TagLibs
> > Rails Validation - Grails Constraints
> >
> > Some things not in Rails:
> >
> > - Services
> > - TagLibs (again)
> > - Programmatic BootStrapping
> > - A scriplet free view tech
> > - Dyanmic methods without inheritence (eg. not need to extend ActiveRecord)
> >
> > I've probably missed some things, but thats a start
> >
>
> - Access to the entire Java platform
> - Application-based, so JVM is an advantage
> - Real transaction management, including propagation levels and
> distributed transactions
> - Easy integration with enterprise platforms (Weblogic, Websphere, ...)
> - Hassle-free integration with existing Java codebases, so ideal for prototyping
> - Proxy-based AOP support, next to mixins
Yeh most of those are tied into being able to run in the JVM which is
a big plus. Also:

- The ability to map on to legacy database systems using Hibernate mapping
- The fact that it doesn't force you to use the entire stack. Rails
you have to use the whole thing, Grails you can choose only to use the
controller/view layer, only to script hibernate with it etc.
- Being built on Spring and all the dependency injection goodness that
that offers

Graeme

>
> I've probably missed some too.
>
> Steven
>
> > Graeme
> > >
> > > bye blackdrag
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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RE: differences to Rails

Dierk König
- I'm not sure how good Rails handles I18n and localization..
- protect investment in J2EE Web-IT-platforms
- attractive for Java based corporate IT shops (politically compliant)
- no extra db-installation for development
- based on industry-standard solutions

more to come
Mittie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf
> Of Graeme Rocher
> Sent: Donnerstag, 23. März 2006 10:14
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [grails-user] differences to Rails
>
>
> On 3/23/06, Steven Devijver <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 3/23/06, Graeme Rocher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On 3/22/06, Jochen Theodorou <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > do we have a pae describing the differences in concepts to
> rails? I mean
> > > > GORM vs ActiveRecord and such. It would help Rails people to see how
> > > > much Rails in Grails is and what has to be done in a different way.
> > > Good idea! I will add one...
> > >
> > > Rougly though its something like:
> > >
> > > RHTML - GSP
> > > GORM - ActiveRecord
> > > Rails Helpers - Grails TagLibs
> > > Rails Validation - Grails Constraints
> > >
> > > Some things not in Rails:
> > >
> > > - Services
> > > - TagLibs (again)
> > > - Programmatic BootStrapping
> > > - A scriplet free view tech
> > > - Dyanmic methods without inheritence (eg. not need to extend
> ActiveRecord)
> > >
> > > I've probably missed some things, but thats a start
> > >
> >
> > - Access to the entire Java platform
> > - Application-based, so JVM is an advantage
> > - Real transaction management, including propagation levels and
> > distributed transactions
> > - Easy integration with enterprise platforms (Weblogic, Websphere, ...)
> > - Hassle-free integration with existing Java codebases, so
> ideal for prototyping
> > - Proxy-based AOP support, next to mixins
> Yeh most of those are tied into being able to run in the JVM which is
> a big plus. Also:
>
> - The ability to map on to legacy database systems using Hibernate mapping
> - The fact that it doesn't force you to use the entire stack. Rails
> you have to use the whole thing, Grails you can choose only to use the
> controller/view layer, only to script hibernate with it etc.
> - Being built on Spring and all the dependency injection goodness that
> that offers
>
> Graeme
>
> >
> > I've probably missed some too.
> >
> > Steven
> >
> > > Graeme
> > > >
> > > > bye blackdrag
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >

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Re: differences to Rails

graemer
btw although I think long term its wise to have something like this,
right now its not a good idea. As we don't have a released product yet
and Rails is at 1.0.

And also when we release Grails I would like some articles and posts
that will create a buzz around it and having something like this will
do that... so before we create anything on the site lets wait a bit
:-)

Graeme

On 3/23/06, Dierk Koenig <[hidden email]> wrote:

> - I'm not sure how good Rails handles I18n and localization..
> - protect investment in J2EE Web-IT-platforms
> - attractive for Java based corporate IT shops (politically compliant)
> - no extra db-installation for development
> - based on industry-standard solutions
>
> more to come
> Mittie
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf
> > Of Graeme Rocher
> > Sent: Donnerstag, 23. März 2006 10:14
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [grails-user] differences to Rails
> >
> >
> > On 3/23/06, Steven Devijver <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On 3/23/06, Graeme Rocher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > On 3/22/06, Jochen Theodorou <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > do we have a pae describing the differences in concepts to
> > rails? I mean
> > > > > GORM vs ActiveRecord and such. It would help Rails people to see how
> > > > > much Rails in Grails is and what has to be done in a different way.
> > > > Good idea! I will add one...
> > > >
> > > > Rougly though its something like:
> > > >
> > > > RHTML - GSP
> > > > GORM - ActiveRecord
> > > > Rails Helpers - Grails TagLibs
> > > > Rails Validation - Grails Constraints
> > > >
> > > > Some things not in Rails:
> > > >
> > > > - Services
> > > > - TagLibs (again)
> > > > - Programmatic BootStrapping
> > > > - A scriplet free view tech
> > > > - Dyanmic methods without inheritence (eg. not need to extend
> > ActiveRecord)
> > > >
> > > > I've probably missed some things, but thats a start
> > > >
> > >
> > > - Access to the entire Java platform
> > > - Application-based, so JVM is an advantage
> > > - Real transaction management, including propagation levels and
> > > distributed transactions
> > > - Easy integration with enterprise platforms (Weblogic, Websphere, ...)
> > > - Hassle-free integration with existing Java codebases, so
> > ideal for prototyping
> > > - Proxy-based AOP support, next to mixins
> > Yeh most of those are tied into being able to run in the JVM which is
> > a big plus. Also:
> >
> > - The ability to map on to legacy database systems using Hibernate mapping
> > - The fact that it doesn't force you to use the entire stack. Rails
> > you have to use the whole thing, Grails you can choose only to use the
> > controller/view layer, only to script hibernate with it etc.
> > - Being built on Spring and all the dependency injection goodness that
> > that offers
> >
> > Graeme
> >
> > >
> > > I've probably missed some too.
> > >
> > > Steven
> > >
> > > > Graeme
> > > > >
> > > > > bye blackdrag
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>
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Re: differences to Rails

Stephan.Schmidt
In reply to this post by Dierk König
On 23.03.2006, at 11:08, Dierk Koenig wrote:

> - I'm not sure how good Rails handles I18n and localization..
> - protect investment in J2EE Web-IT-platforms
> - attractive for Java based corporate IT shops (politically compliant)
> - no extra db-installation for development
> - based on industry-standard solutions
>

(Taken together: It runs Java :-)

bye
-stephan

--
   SnipSnap - The easy weblog and wiki software
   http://snipsnap.org

   Fraunhofer - Institute for Computer Architecture and Software  
Technology
   Stephan J. Schmidt, Fraunhofer FIRST, Kekulestr 7, 12489 Berlin,  
Germany
   FON +49 (0)30 6392 1822, FAX -1805,  
[hidden email]


> more to come
> Mittie
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On  
>> Behalf
>> Of Graeme Rocher
>> Sent: Donnerstag, 23. März 2006 10:14
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] differences to Rails
>>
>>
>> On 3/23/06, Steven Devijver <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 3/23/06, Graeme Rocher <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On 3/22/06, Jochen Theodorou <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> do we have a pae describing the differences in concepts to
>> rails? I mean
>>>>> GORM vs ActiveRecord and such. It would help Rails people to  
>>>>> see how
>>>>> much Rails in Grails is and what has to be done in a different  
>>>>> way.
>>>> Good idea! I will add one...
>>>>
>>>> Rougly though its something like:
>>>>
>>>> RHTML - GSP
>>>> GORM - ActiveRecord
>>>> Rails Helpers - Grails TagLibs
>>>> Rails Validation - Grails Constraints
>>>>
>>>> Some things not in Rails:
>>>>
>>>> - Services
>>>> - TagLibs (again)
>>>> - Programmatic BootStrapping
>>>> - A scriplet free view tech
>>>> - Dyanmic methods without inheritence (eg. not need to extend
>> ActiveRecord)
>>>>
>>>> I've probably missed some things, but thats a start
>>>>
>>>
>>> - Access to the entire Java platform
>>> - Application-based, so JVM is an advantage
>>> - Real transaction management, including propagation levels and
>>> distributed transactions
>>> - Easy integration with enterprise platforms (Weblogic,  
>>> Websphere, ...)
>>> - Hassle-free integration with existing Java codebases, so
>> ideal for prototyping
>>> - Proxy-based AOP support, next to mixins
>> Yeh most of those are tied into being able to run in the JVM which is
>> a big plus. Also:
>>
>> - The ability to map on to legacy database systems using Hibernate  
>> mapping
>> - The fact that it doesn't force you to use the entire stack. Rails
>> you have to use the whole thing, Grails you can choose only to use  
>> the
>> controller/view layer, only to script hibernate with it etc.
>> - Being built on Spring and all the dependency injection goodness  
>> that
>> that offers
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>>
>>> I've probably missed some too.
>>>
>>> Steven
>>>
>>>> Graeme
>>>>>
>>>>> bye blackdrag
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>

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Re: differences to Rails

Stephan.Schmidt
In reply to this post by graemer
Your're right. When is the release  roughly planned? Perhaps I could
create some buzz too :-)

bye
-stephan

> btw although I think long term its wise to have something like this,
> right now its not a good idea. As we don't have a released product yet
> and Rails is at 1.0.
>
> And also when we release Grails I would like some articles and posts
> that will create a buzz around it and having something like this will
> do that... so before we create anything on the site lets wait a bit
> :-)
>
> Graeme
>
> On 3/23/06, Dierk Koenig <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> - I'm not sure how good Rails handles I18n and localization..
>> - protect investment in J2EE Web-IT-platforms
>> - attractive for Java based corporate IT shops (politically  
>> compliant)
>> - no extra db-installation for development
>> - based on industry-standard solutions
>>
>> more to come
>> Mittie
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On  
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Graeme Rocher
>>> Sent: Donnerstag, 23. März 2006 10:14
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [grails-user] differences to Rails
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/23/06, Steven Devijver <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On 3/23/06, Graeme Rocher <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> On 3/22/06, Jochen Theodorou <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> do we have a pae describing the differences in concepts to
>>> rails? I mean
>>>>>> GORM vs ActiveRecord and such. It would help Rails people to  
>>>>>> see how
>>>>>> much Rails in Grails is and what has to be done in a different  
>>>>>> way.
>>>>> Good idea! I will add one...
>>>>>
>>>>> Rougly though its something like:
>>>>>
>>>>> RHTML - GSP
>>>>> GORM - ActiveRecord
>>>>> Rails Helpers - Grails TagLibs
>>>>> Rails Validation - Grails Constraints
>>>>>
>>>>> Some things not in Rails:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Services
>>>>> - TagLibs (again)
>>>>> - Programmatic BootStrapping
>>>>> - A scriplet free view tech
>>>>> - Dyanmic methods without inheritence (eg. not need to extend
>>> ActiveRecord)
>>>>>
>>>>> I've probably missed some things, but thats a start
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Access to the entire Java platform
>>>> - Application-based, so JVM is an advantage
>>>> - Real transaction management, including propagation levels and
>>>> distributed transactions
>>>> - Easy integration with enterprise platforms (Weblogic,  
>>>> Websphere, ...)
>>>> - Hassle-free integration with existing Java codebases, so
>>> ideal for prototyping
>>>> - Proxy-based AOP support, next to mixins
>>> Yeh most of those are tied into being able to run in the JVM  
>>> which is
>>> a big plus. Also:
>>>
>>> - The ability to map on to legacy database systems using  
>>> Hibernate mapping
>>> - The fact that it doesn't force you to use the entire stack. Rails
>>> you have to use the whole thing, Grails you can choose only to  
>>> use the
>>> controller/view layer, only to script hibernate with it etc.
>>> - Being built on Spring and all the dependency injection goodness  
>>> that
>>> that offers
>>>
>>> Graeme
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've probably missed some too.
>>>>
>>>> Steven
>>>>
>>>>> Graeme
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bye blackdrag
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>

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RE: differences to Rails

Dierk König
In reply to this post by graemer
I see two aspects:

a) technical differences
b) 'why I like x better' - differences

a) would be about hard technical facts. This helps everybody for finding
   his way around Grails. The Wiki would be the right place to put it.
   Maybe with a disclaimer that it isn't b).

b) will go the blogs and has no place on the Wiki.

my 0.02$
Mittie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf
> Of Graeme Rocher
> Sent: Donnerstag, 23. März 2006 11:14
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [grails-user] differences to Rails
>
>
> btw although I think long term its wise to have something like this,
> right now its not a good idea. As we don't have a released product yet
> and Rails is at 1.0.
>
> And also when we release Grails I would like some articles and posts
> that will create a buzz around it and having something like this will
> do that... so before we create anything on the site lets wait a bit
> :-)
>
> Graeme
>
> On 3/23/06, Dierk Koenig <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > - I'm not sure how good Rails handles I18n and localization..
> > - protect investment in J2EE Web-IT-platforms
> > - attractive for Java based corporate IT shops (politically compliant)
> > - no extra db-installation for development
> > - based on industry-standard solutions
> >
> > more to come
> > Mittie
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf
> > > Of Graeme Rocher
> > > Sent: Donnerstag, 23. März 2006 10:14
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Subject: Re: [grails-user] differences to Rails
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/23/06, Steven Devijver <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > On 3/23/06, Graeme Rocher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > On 3/22/06, Jochen Theodorou <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > do we have a pae describing the differences in concepts to
> > > rails? I mean
> > > > > > GORM vs ActiveRecord and such. It would help Rails
> people to see how
> > > > > > much Rails in Grails is and what has to be done in a
> different way.
> > > > > Good idea! I will add one...
> > > > >
> > > > > Rougly though its something like:
> > > > >
> > > > > RHTML - GSP
> > > > > GORM - ActiveRecord
> > > > > Rails Helpers - Grails TagLibs
> > > > > Rails Validation - Grails Constraints
> > > > >
> > > > > Some things not in Rails:
> > > > >
> > > > > - Services
> > > > > - TagLibs (again)
> > > > > - Programmatic BootStrapping
> > > > > - A scriplet free view tech
> > > > > - Dyanmic methods without inheritence (eg. not need to extend
> > > ActiveRecord)
> > > > >
> > > > > I've probably missed some things, but thats a start
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Access to the entire Java platform
> > > > - Application-based, so JVM is an advantage
> > > > - Real transaction management, including propagation levels and
> > > > distributed transactions
> > > > - Easy integration with enterprise platforms (Weblogic,
> Websphere, ...)
> > > > - Hassle-free integration with existing Java codebases, so
> > > ideal for prototyping
> > > > - Proxy-based AOP support, next to mixins
> > > Yeh most of those are tied into being able to run in the JVM which is
> > > a big plus. Also:
> > >
> > > - The ability to map on to legacy database systems using
> Hibernate mapping
> > > - The fact that it doesn't force you to use the entire stack. Rails
> > > you have to use the whole thing, Grails you can choose only to use the
> > > controller/view layer, only to script hibernate with it etc.
> > > - Being built on Spring and all the dependency injection goodness that
> > > that offers
> > >
> > > Graeme
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I've probably missed some too.
> > > >
> > > > Steven
> > > >
> > > > > Graeme
> > > > > >
> > > > > > bye blackdrag
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >